‘COVID Operation Book’ — Dr Pam Popper (Full Author Interview)

Pam Popper

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Dr Pamela Popper

Dr. Pam Popper is a naturopathic doctor with a PhD in nutrition, an internationally recognized expert on nutrition, medicine and health, and the Executive Director of Wellness Forum Health.

She served as part of Dr. T. Colin Campbell’s teaching team at eCornell, teaching part of a certification course on plant-based nutrition. Dr. Popper is also a lobbyist and public policy expert

Her company, Wellness Forum Health, offers educational programs to both consumers and providers that facilitate informed medical decision-making, diet and lifestyle intervention, and improved long-term health outcomes. Through its own network of providers, Wellness Forum Health offers direct-to-consumer healthcare services.

The interview video was created by, as part of their forthcoming film release. Please consider donating to their GoFundMe page.

COVID Operation: What Happened, Why It Happened, and What’s Next

COVID Operation by Pam Popper

Amazon have removed this book from Kindle Store. Author Pamela Popper claims this was a form censorship. However books get removed from Kindle Store for a variety of reasons and often temporarily until formatting issues are fixed for example. So without some form of evidence, I can’t accept that at face value. Pamela’s videos are frequently removed from YouTube however without merit.

You can download COVID Operation (PDF). You can also buy COVID Operation (EPUB). And you can buy COVID Operation (printed).

I skimmed the book for five minutes and concluded it was not worth more of my time, it wasn’t great by any means. However many of the references are useful.

Rear Cover

COVID Operation is the story of how the COVID-19 Hoax began, who the major players are, and how the plan was executed. It’s a disturbing account of how easy it is to take control of people who assume that they will continue to enjoy freedom without holding government, the media, and many others accountable.

The most consequential thing to happen in the world since World War II, this event has been perpetrated by a wide network of enemies of the people who have managed to disguise themselves as public servants, health professionals, and founders and heads of global non-profits. They are everywhere, they are incredibly rich, they are powerful, and they are intent on getting their way.

With knowledge comes power, and our hope is that the information in this book will motivate masses of people to reject what is often referred to as “the new normal,” to do whatever is required to take back their lives, and to ensure that future generations will live free.


I found this interview solid compared to the book. Which is why I’ve acted to protect it from censorship and produced a transcript below.

Pam Popper

Well, I’m Pam popper and I’m the president and founder of Wellness Forum Health. We’ve been in business for 25 years and our businesses informed medical decision making. And that’s how I got involved in this COVID mess, which led me to start another organization called Make Americans Free Again [associated lawsuit against Ohio for its “unconstitutional Covid-19 response”].

And the two organizations are separate. One is my for-profit business. The other is a black hole for money if you [laughter] sort of, but but that’s, that’s basically, those are the two entities I spend all of my time on. And then I write, I just published a book called COVID Operation. What Happened, Why it Happened? And What’s Next Story, I tried to put together in some kind of very understandable form, like a storybook what’s going on here. So that’s what I’m all about.

Here’s a copy of the book. This is what it looks like. You can get it on ebook. It’s interesting. Amazon took the Kindle version down, I guess that’s their form of censorship. We can’t make this too easy for people to buy, so you can buy an ebook downloadable version on our website, but this is the paperback version, which you can get on Amazon or order from us or buy in bookstores.

They had it up for Kindle for, I don’t know, it was maybe two or three days and then they took it down.

Pam Popper

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s no weirder than anything else that’s going on with these big companies. I mean, Facebook takes down anything they don’t like. And I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but lately what they’re doing is you know, somebody will send you a link to a video and you click on it and then it’ll have this warning sign that this is dangerous information. It’s misinformation.

If you want to click on it anyway, you know, click here. So censorship is alive and well, and I’m carrying out this ridiculous thing that’s going on requires that significant numbers of people be ignorant, which is getting increasingly more difficult to do, which is why the censorship is getting, I think in my opinion, a little more aggressive we could put, maybe that would be the term for it.

I’m very careful about what I say. So on YouTube, I put out information, but then it’s controversial from the standpoint that I think everybody knows that I don’t agree with some of this stuff, but I put the really dicey stuff in something called the forbidden video, which I post on my website at Wellness Forum Health. And then I have a forbidden newsletter, which I send out through our own server, so I don’t have to worry about censorship.

So the dicey stuff is in the newsletter and the forbidden video. And then the plain vanilla COVID data kind of stuff goes out on the video clips, Tuesdays through Fridays, every week.

I started my company 25 years ago. And the premise of the company was that when people buy things that are not health-related, they’re really and diligent about, I mean, people will get, if they’re going to buy a blender, they’ll get articles and consult consumer reports and people understand, you have to be responsible for the decisions that you make when you buy houses and cars and retirement accounts and appliances and college educations for your kids, you know? And then when it comes to medicine, somebody will walk into a doctor’s office and the doctor says, you need this $80,000 surgery and people go, okay, how about Thursday? You know, which is an insane way to do things, right?

So from the get go, what we’ve been promoting to consumers, and we, we own a school. We teach healthcare professionals how to do this too, is the idea that if you put the same level of diligence into making choices about healthcare, that you do buying a blender or a car, you’ll end up with better outcomes. And in fact, people engage in less medicine, they do less medical related things.

They forego screening tests that are more harmful than helpful. They decline to fill a prescription, they decide not to have a procedure when they’re properly informed. So that’s what we’ve been doing here for 25 years. And we, we have clients in numbers in 33 different countries.

So I produce content and I work with a group of people who produce informed content – videos, and articles and courses and that sort of thing. So when this came about, it started with I’m gonna look into this, and report to our members what’s going on and who would’ve thought, right.

Pam Popper ➝ 04:27

That what was going on is what we found out was going on. But that’s how it all started. The medical tyranny has been going on for decades in our country, and it’s been getting worse. And let me tell you what I mean by medical tyranny. Medical tyranny is when a hospital says to a nurse, you can’t work here unless you get a flu vaccine. It’s when a legislature passes a law saying you can’t enroll your children in school, unless your kids get 50 vaccines.

It’s when a doctor says to a parent, if you don’t give that child Risperdal for his behavioral problems, we’re going to turn you into child protective services. And this has been going on for decades. It’s been getting worse year after year after year.

And so sooner or later, something bad was going to happen. I had no idea it was going to be something like this, but we were careening toward disaster before this ever started.

And I, in the book, I, I write about those. So there’s a chapter called the perfect storm and the perfect storm for medical tyranny to do what we’re seeing right now is four things have to happen. You have to have public education and creating generations of stupid people. That’s the first thing. The second thing is you have to have a media that is completely not curious about looking into anything. I mean the five major broadcast networks taken built tens of billions of dollars every year from the drug companies.

And they can be told to report almost anything and they will. And I’ll tell you a great story to let you know how much the media is not really reporting anything of value anymore. Our newspaper here in Columbus is the Columbus dispatch. We call it the Columbus disgrace. All right. It’s printed in Indianapolis and brought over here if we’re delivering in the morning.

So let me tell you what happened the day before Thanksgiving on, Wednesday, six o’clock in the morning, the newspaper comes. In about five minutes later, another big bundle lands on my porch. And I think, Oh, it’s probably the black Friday ads, right? That, that they forgot to deliver. It was along with the Thursday newspaper. Now, do you know how much fake news it is when you print the newspaper on Tuesday night that you’re going to put out on Thursday? They’re not even trying to pretend anymore that they’re reporting anything. Right?

So, so anyway, so you’ve got to have an education system producing stupid people. You’ve got to have a media that’s very compliant and willing to lazily report anything handed to it. You need a government that’s increasingly intrusive and people putting up with it, but most important, you need an irresponsible medical system that is used to lying to people.

Pam Popper ➝ 06:57

It’s used to overcharging people and no discipline whatsoever. And I’ll tell you what I think is the epitome of what the medical system has been like. And it’s what happened with the opiate epidemic. You know, we have an epidemic of addicted people in this country and people like to point to the pill mills and that sort of thing. And they were responsible for part of it, but a good deal of it was that Purdue pharma hired pretty girls who used to be cheerleaders in high school. And I’m not kidding. You can see this as part of their hiring practices.

And they went out and they told doctors that there was an epidemic of untreated pain in the United States and Oxycontin wasn’t addictive and a significant number of doctors, a few hundred thousand of them said, okay. And they started prescribing. And when you have a group of people who are that uninformed irresponsible, and and so on, something bad is going to happen.

The opiate epidemic was just a fraction of the disaster that these people are capable of creating. And we’re living in the midst of the disaster that they helped to create right now.


Was there a reason or a turning point for you personally?

Pam Popper ➝ 08:04

Well, yeah, I’ll tell you what happened. What got me interested in the health business in the beginning was fortunately not a personal health catastrophe. You hear that a lot, of reasons why people decide to get into the health business is they had stage four cancer. Their father did, and they found out, you know, they could eat their way out of it. That’s not what happened to me.

What happened to me, it was, I was very not health conscious actually as an adult. And I was a sales trainer, nothing to do with health, my prior occupation, which I think is helpful to be in the healthcare business with a business background.

We probably need a little bit more of that. Right. But in any case, what, what happened to me is I read an article in a magazine one day that I thought was kind of interesting about how diet could influence your health.

And I don’t think anybody would deny that diet influences your health, but this 1994, nobody’s paying any attention to this kind of thing. And so the idea that cancer would be diet related. I mean, that was just mind blowing to me. So I did a little bit of research and I read a book written by a doc in California. Who’d been helping people recover from serious disease, including multiple sclerosis for years using diet. And you know, how you think you’re really smart and educated.

I thought I was really smart and educated, there’s this part of you that says, how could I miss this? And, you know, what else don’t I know about all of this. So it just started me down a path of looking into healthcare and health and at a certain point in time, it’s like, gosh, I think everybody should know about this.

And so that’s how I ended up starting this company. And and I, who would have thought that you could create a large international business with the simple concept of, we’re just going to tell people the truth about health. All right.

And then we’re going to show them how to look into health-related matters so that they can make better decisions even without us which is what we do for our people. And so that’s, that’s sort of how this came about , informed medical decision-making. Learning how to buy health care, all things related, the diets, you eat, the supplements you take, the tests you have, the drugs you take, the procedures you agree to, the vaccinations with the same diligence that you buy everything else that’s important in your life. I’m Pam popper and I’m president of Wellness Forum Health. And I’m also the co-founder of Make Americans Free Again.

Businesses are kind of related and what Wellness Forum Health does, our primary business is informed medical decision making. So we help consumers make better decisions about healthcare. And we train healthcare professionals through our school, how to engage in informed decisions and conversations with their patients and clients.

When this all, all started. And I started talking about what’s really going on with this COVID situation. I think one of the interesting things here we are, what eight, nine months later is that our clientele already knew something was wrong because we taught them to be skeptical about all things medical.

So in the whole time that this has gone on, we’ve had three, not 3%, because that would be a big number one, two, three people who have express their displeasure with us for the stance that we’ve taken on this. But everybody else in our clan, if you want to call it, our membership, our clients has understood from the get go, what was going on.

Most of the criticism we’ve gotten is from people who have never been educated by us, who believed what they were told by the media and believed what they were told by medicine, because people still believe in medicine. I don’t think you should believe in anything except facts and information, but anyway so that’s how we started getting involved in this in the first place is digging into it to report to our members accurately what was happening.

So unfortunately people who have been a habitually, what’s the word I’m looking for? Obedient to the medical system. They think that, Oh, my doctor is the head of the department at the local medical center. So he must know what he’s talking about or what she’s talking about. And therefore I should follow instructions. Those are the people who’ve been hurt the worst by this both psychologically and otherwise, because they’ve believed what these people were telling them.

Interviewer ➝ 12:09

Having a business of, of helping people make informed medical choices, but you in a unique position is this year.

Pam Popper

Oh, I think we were in a very unique position. First of all we had the infrastructure to do some proactive things about this. I had written bestselling books before, so writing a book wasn’t out of the realm of things that I would normally do and creating educational programs that help people understand what’s going on.

I mean, you know, we do it for cancer patients. You can do it for people who are affected by a COVID as well. So it’s, this was very much the normal thing that we would have taken on, we weren’t expecting it, but it’s not out of the realm of what we do on a, on a daily basis at all.

Oh, I knew what was going on. And I’ll tell you an interesting background story on this. So in 2009, in 2010, the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control declared a fake pandemic, they already did it.

It was a dress rehearsal in some respects. So what had happened, some people might remember that that was the year of the swine flu was supposed to kill everybody. And there was a lot of fear about it, and people were being encouraged to get a vaccine that was developed rather quickly, not as quickly as the one for this, but, but developed rather quickly. And so, and they, they actually said that, that this thing started in Mexico.

So they were going to test anybody coming into the United States from Mexico, whether it would be somebody visiting from that country or coming back from a vacation or an immigrant, et cetera. And so an interesting thing happened after all this publicity and everything else.

December 30, 2020

“So unfortunately people who have been a habitually, what’s the word I’m looking for? Obedient to the medical system. They think that, Oh, my doctor is the head of the department at the local medical center.
So he must know what he’s talking about or what she’s talking about. And therefore I should follow instructions.
Those are the people who’ve been hurt the worst by this both psychologically and otherwise“

Dr Pam Popper

Founder, Wellness Forum Health

And about February of 2010, January, February the CDC or the WHO said we’re so overwhelmed with swine flu cases, H1N1, that we want you to stop testing.

And the reason is we just want people to focus on getting treatment. So if somebody shows up in your facility and they say that they have the sniffles or a headache or a fever or whatever it is that they’re complaining about, just assume that they have H1N1 and treat them and send them on their way. All right.

And I thought at the time, this was very strange. And what I said, I wrote an article and you can see in our library, it’s timestamped that it was before investigative reporters got involved in this. I said, there is no epidemic. They’re worried about that.

So they’re telling people to stop testing so they can keep the appearance of the epidemic. Well, after this whole episode was over, CBS News did an investigative. This was before the media got really lazy. They actually looked into it and they use the Freedom of Information Act to get data from every single state health department on how many cases they had and all this sort of thing.

And the bottom line is there was no epidemic. People coming in from Mexico, doesn’t have the swine flu, the H1N1. So, so the bottom line was, it was a manufactured epidemic.

Here in the United States, nothing really bad happened except some bad publicity for people like the folks who work at the centers for disease control or the FDA a little bit of bad publicity for WHO and Europe, it was a little bit worse.

The estimate was that $18 billion dollars got squandered worldwide on this fake pandemic. And there was some hearings and that sort of thing, but nobody really ever lost their job over it. A real interesting comment was made by Margaret Chan back then, who is the director general of the World Health Organization? She said that pandemics are excellent opportunities. I’m paraphrasing here, but pandemics are really great opportunities to do social engineering and we shouldn’t let them go to waste.

Pam Popper

And boy, we should’ve paid more attention to that comment. So when this started back in March and they were going to flatten the curve or whatever the heck they were telling everybody back in March, I knew that this was wrong.

I knew something else was afoot. I had no idea it was going to turn into what it turned into, but I knew for at that moment that there was no pandemic, that this was manufactured and that bad things were going to happen. Had no idea how bad, but I knew bad things were going to happen.

Interviewer ➝ 16:08

And what would you say are the, are the three top reasons? You’d you tell someone who’s not the uninitiated or those that don’t know it’s, it didn’t immediately realize there was something else, but there, so, I mean, what are the kind of three biggest points you’d make to, to them like that? Yeah. Why, why

Pam Popper

They did it before they did it before. I have this strange idea that past behavior is a predictor of future behavior. And then I’ll tell you another thing.

When Fauci showed up in that first press conference, my heart sank. Many of us knew about Fauci and his criminal deeds for a long, long time. And he never paid for it.

Nobody ever gets fired when you work for the federal government, you can do almost anything. And so when he showed up, I knew bad things were going to happen because he had done so many terrible things during the HIV AIDS crisis.

So between the fake pandemic of 2009 and 2010, and Fauci showing up as the person in charge, by that point in time, I knew that disastrous things were going to happen and they did.

Interviewer ➝ 17:13

It seems like he would be right corrupt official to hire?

Pam Popper

Absolutely. Well, I’ll tell you what he did. You know, it’s interesting, again, past behavior being a predictor, there’s a chapter in the book called by the way, Meet the Players and every single one of these people, Robert Redfield, Deborah Birx, Fauci, all of them, Gates, Tedros, they all have histories that if you really took the time to look into them would make you very, very, very concerned.

But what happened during the HIV AIDS crisis and why some of us knew from the get-go, this was going to be awful, was first of all, Fauci cooked up this crazy idea that turned out not to be true that HIV causes AIDS.

And then he predicted that tens of millions of people were going to die, start to sound familiar, right? Unless we could come up with a vaccine at some warp speed fashion – he didn’t use that term back then.

But it turned out that it was kind of inconvenient data coming in 4,600 and some people who had AIDS defining diseases, weren’t HIV positive. So he made up some other kind of condition to call them so he could move them out of the data set and keep this crazy idea he had going on. And as a result of his misdirected attention, there still isn’t any vaccine for HIV. And it’s a virus that most people clear anyway.

December 30, 2020

“When Fauci showed up in that first press conference, my heart sank. Many of us knew about Fauci and his criminal deeds for a long, long time. And he never paid for it.”

Dr Pam Popper

Founder, Wellness Forum Health

A lot of people did die of AIDS who didn’t have to, okay. So it was his irresponsibility, but it doesn’t end there. In the rush for a cure as it turned out, Burroughs had a drug that they had tried on cancer. They were going to make it a cancer drug. It killed all the lab animals. It actually killed all the lab animals.

So they, they didn’t even patent it, you know how bad a drug has to be when the company doesn’t even bother to patent it. Right. So they didn’t even bother to patent it. And Fauci and his buddies at Burroughs take this God awful drug off the shelf, put it in a clinical trial for AIDS patients. It became known as AZT, which is pretty much no longer used because it didn’t take long for the affected people to find out that the drug was actually killing their people.

Remember the Dallas Buyers Club, that’s what that movie was all about. It was a real true story behind that. Matthew McConaughey played the lead. And so they were going to Mexico to bring him to bring drug cocktails back because they knew that AZT was killing AIDS patients. All right. So

Interviewer ➝ 19:38
[inaudible question]
Pam Popper

Yeah. And as if that’s not bad enough as if that wasn’t wasn’t bad enough after he got this drug approved to treat AIDS patients, he decided to do a clinical trial on pregnant women who were HIV positive and they stopped the trial early because I think there were 13 babies on the intervention group who were not born HIV positive.

They did no follow-up to see that any of these kids were going to be okay after their mothers were exposed to this awful drug while they were pregnant. And that became the standard of care for HIV positive pregnant women. And it was just unconscionable.

So that’s what he did before. And his sister actually made a comment to a magazine one time that the problem with Tony is that once he gets his mind fixated on an idea, facts, won’t change his mind. And that’s certainly what we’re dealing with now, you know,

Interviewer ➝ 20:36

Maybe briefly describe the divergence between public health and real health policy.

Pam Popper

Yeah. So let’s talk about public health. I think first of all, public health, as we define it today, it isn’t anything.

In other words, let me tell you what I mean by that. So who gets a job in public health like to lead the Ohio Department of Health, a medical doctor who has political aspirations, not somebody who actually knows something about public health.

There’s a really interesting book called The Social Transformation of American Medicine. And this is really important. I think it’s a great book to read if you want to know why we’re in the mess we’re in right now, but, but public health used to be about what, what it says, public health, how do we improve the health of like the community, the whole population. And so at a certain point in time, public health officials were doing really good things.

Pam Popper

And I’ll give you some examples, cleaning up the water supply. I think it’s really great that we’re not getting cholera anymore. That’s a public health initiative. All right.

Another thing they were doing is going into the schools in underprivileged areas and finding kids who had no dental care. I think that’s a good idea. At some point in time, it [public health] stopped being about initiatives that actually promoted community health and that sort of thing. And it started being about power.

You know, people say that they’re in public health when they’re with the FDA or the CDC or the world health organization, none of those organizations are into public health and they’re all funded by drug companies, right? So the idea of public health, where you’re looking at, how do you do the best job you can for the most people that’s totally lost.

And you can see it here with the policies around COVID-19 they’re designed to kill people really. I mean, that’s a strong accusation to make but nobody’s ever been able to explain to me how, how public health or anybody’s health improves by taking an 80 year old person and depriving them of human contact until they give up their will to live. That’s what you, that’s the type of behavior you would expect from Nazis, not from public health officials.

Interviewer ➝ 22:51

Yeah. I mean, just the stories that were told. I mean, can you just comment on the credibility of these policies? Like

Pam Popper

There’s no credibility for the policies and there’s no science to back them up. And if anybody brings up any science that refutes them, it’s taken down, it’s taken off YouTube. The mainstream media will not allow anybody with a contrary opinion to have a voice. And that should say something.

I mean, the first thing somebody should be suspicious of is when everybody you talk to has the same opinion about anything, because what in history is that ever happened? Right. So the mere fact that you are told the same thing by, by all media outlets it is concerning. And I don’t know if you’ve ever seen some of these montages that have been created where they’ll have they’ll have all of them speaking in unison. Like they’re all we’re reading from the same script, right? Because they were all reading from the same script that gave them.

So it’ll say something to the effect that, you know, cases are surging and, and all of the counties are becoming purple or whatever. And then it’ll show you like 900 news cast are saying exactly that, well, how does that happen? It has to be coordinated, right? So there is no scientific debate. There’s no room.

And really what, what health care should be about is the best ideas on health care moving forward, because they’re proven to be the best ideas, not about we’ve decided in advance, what we’re going to do and just let the chips fall wherever they may.

And once in a while, they’ll put something out that actually explains what’s going on. Like Redfield. The head of the CDC actually testified in front of Congress that I think it’s 25% of adolescents and young adults had thought about killing themselves. Think about what that means.

And, and they’re still wanting to lock everybody down and keep kids home from school and no sports and the whole nine yards. So, so think about how unthinking people have to be to listen to that and say, yup, we’re definitely on the right track.

December 30, 2020

“There’s no credibility for the policies and there’s no science to back them up. And if anybody brings up any science that refutes them, it’s taken down, it’s taken off YouTube.”

Dr Pam Popper

Founder, Wellness Forum Health

We should, you know, the people who love these lockdowns and everything else, good to go with 25% of our young people, wishing they were dead. We got a great thing going on. It’s unbelievable.

And so back to your point, what is public health, do you think public health is putting adolescents and young adults in a place where 25% of them would like to kill themselves. Do you think public health is about older people dying alone without human contact in a nursing home? You know, there’s a new thing they’re putting on death certificates. These days for nursing home does it’s called failure to thrive.

This is where old people just give up their will to live and stop eating. In Canada older people can do assisted suicide.

And what I covered this in a video clip, a woman who opted for assisted suicide instead of staying by herself alone in her room in the nursing home. And we think that’s okay, seriously, that’s murder.

That’s committing murder indirectly when you drive people to do this. And and I won’t rest until we prove that these people have not only committed fraud, but that they have them responsible for deaths and they should be criminally prosecuted. That’s a strong accusation to make too.

Interviewer ➝ 26:07

So do you think all these public health officials are wittingly doing these things or they’re just arrogant, or

December 30, 2020

“the policies around COVID-19 they’re designed to kill people really. I mean, that’s a strong accusation to make but nobody’s ever been able to explain to me how, how public health or anybody’s health improves by taking an 80 year old person and depriving them of human contact until they give up their will to live”

Dr Pam Popper

Founder, Wellness Forum Health

Pam Popper

I think that it’s impossible to at this juncture, you and I are having this conversation in December. It is impossible for this to be done without understanding what you’re doing. And many States don’t even have a health department director right now. I mean, our emperor [Andrew Ginther] hired somebody.

I think it was back in September, she was on the job for five hours and quit. And I have to believe that part of that decision was because she realized she wouldn’t have a medical license if she actually did this.

So and a bunch of them quit. I think it was fourteen States lost their health directors in one weekend. And I think that was people who had a bit of a conscience and said, yeah, you know, I think I better get out, but, but they’re not going to skate because they should’ve known better.

Ignorance is not a defense. I didn’t know that it was against the law to kill people. So I don’t, you know, so I, I did. And I, I mean, you don’t get to plead that in a court of law.

Interviewer ➝ 27:07

I guess I’m curious, like, what do you think is going on? Exactly. Like the orders are coming from on high.

Pam Popper

Oh yeah. They’re very coordinated. They’re very, this is, this is all very coordinated because that’s why you saw our emperor per shutdown first and then California did it. And then when the, have you noticed the curfews all started happening at the same time, and then the outliers, you can tell who the governors are, who aren’t compromised.

DeSantis in Florida is not compromised because he opened everything back up and he said, we’re not, we’re not going to do this anymore. And then the woman in South Dakota, she’s not compromised.

So you can tell exactly who’s compromised because everybody else is in lock step. So when we were locked, when we had the the lockdowns originally restrictions, you didn’t have a curfew. Okay. The curfews knew and they all did it at the same time. So yes, it’s very, Oh, it’s coordinated.

Interviewer ➝ 27:59

It’s some kind of corruption issue.

Pam Popper

Oh, it’s absolutely a corruption issue. This was planned. We have the documents that were, that show that it was planned.

Interviewer ➝ 28:07

Okay. And what, what kind of documents from the agency?

Pam Popper

Well, a lot of, I shouldn’t say it isn’t one set of document. So, I’ll just take you through this in 2005, this is the part we don’t know. All right.

In 2005, the World Health Organization asked its member countries, 190 some or whatever it is to sign a document saying that if there was ever a pandemic, everybody would operate the same way.

And, and to, and this is why we don’t know if this was part of it, to a certain extent, you can kind of understand, like, if I thought that there was some kind of bubonic plague type situation, that if I walked out on the sidewalk, I was going to be struck dead. I’d probably want somebody trying to figure out how to keep that from spreading or if we knew where it originated. Right. I, I wouldn’t disagree with that, but anyway, that’s why you saw the, the unified response because of that agreement.

So they knew they could count on. Now there was 10 countries, this is the first thing that went wrong for the planners. 10 countries opted not to do it.

And then you get this inconvenient data floating around. I mean, the mainstream media absolutely lies about Sweden. They’re not regretful of their decision. They would do it again the same way and the whole nine yards.

So anyway, but that’s, that’s how this all started. They knew they could get cooperation. And then the first document that we found that actually is showed people were thinking about it was the Rockefeller Foundation, which has a very nefarious past I don’t know, most people don’t know this, but the Rockefeller Foundation was actively involved in eugenics experiments with the Nazis, and they were proud of their work, published it in medical journals. This isn’t a conspiracy theory.

You can actually read their proud articles collaborating with the Nazis. And I could tell you a lot of other things about the Rockefeller Foundation that you wouldn’t be very proud of either, but in any case in 2010 in conjunction with another organization that doesn’t exist anymore, they folded into some other global thing, but they did this scenario planning thing.

And it was different approaches to dealing with a pandemic and one of them involved, and this will sound very familiar, shutting the world down and locking everybody down and closing businesses and making everybody dependent on the government. And then it it’s exactly what happened. And they took it off their website when people started talking about it, but I was actually able to authenticate it because like a lot of criminals and despots, they were pretty proud of their work and they gave interviews.

And a lot of those are stolen on a… posted on the internet about their work and doing this. So that indicates that because it’s, so followed closely what happened, follows this document, that there was some idea that somebody might actually do this.

And then that the other thing was Event 201, which if you, I don’t know if they’ve taken it down yet, but this was Johns Hopkins, Gates foundation, Bloomberg school of public health.

I don’t remember who else was involved in it, but mostly Gates and Johns Hopkins. And essentially it was an enactment of a pandemic. And it’s exactly like what happened even down to how are we going to control the media and all of this, and all the global health players were there.

December 30, 2020

“… it’s absolutely a corruption issue. This was planned… first document that we found that actually is showed people were thinking about it was the Rockefeller Foundation”

Dr Pam Popper

Founder, Wellness Forum Health

And and it was up for a long time. Like I said, I haven’t looked lately, but a month ago it was still up the whole thing you could watch the whole day and get all the documents and everything else.

And, and so it’s difficult to believe that those weren’t that, that didn’t have something to do with us and Fauci actually said in 2017 to a group of people at Georgetown, that Trump was going to face a pandemic during his presidency. And what a psychic guy he is [laughter].

So, yeah, I think there’s every indication that this was absolutely planned and some of the characters and their interrelationships are pretty interesting too. So for example Tedros, who’s head of the World Health Organization. He was a bad actor from way back another one with a nefarious history, right? So he’s friends with president Xi of China and Xi’s wife is on his Goodwill ambassadors board. And she’s listed as an opera singer, but she’s actually a general in the People’s Army.

And we have some video of her singing to the troops while they slaughtered people at Tiananmen square. She’s a really good person to have involved with the World Health Organization.

And to tell you about Tedros, this is, this would be funny if it wasn’t so serious, but when he got appointed to his job, he’s not a doctor by the way. But when he got to be head of the World Health Organization by Gates, and a lot of people thought it was a terrible idea, but Gates really lobbied for him.

The first person he wanted to appoint to the Goodwill council was Robert Mugabi. Okay. So if anybody knows who Robert Mugabe was, he slaughtered millions of people and actually made a proclamation one day that the only person that could get him to step down from being a dictator in this African country was God. So people were appalled, so he withdrew the nomination, but anyway, you have all these complicated relationships with all these people.

Who’ve been involved in bad acts a long time before they before they came together to orchestrate this mess.

Interviewer ➝ 33:24

And so what’s your main takeaway your message for people or what, what’s your main message to people through all this?

December 30, 2020

“Tedros, who’s head of the World Health Organization. He was a bad actor from way back another one with a nefarious history“

Dr Pam Popper

Founder, Wellness Forum Health

Pam Popper

I think the first thing is it’s a wake up call. It’s a big wake up call sooner or later, something like this was going to happen. We didn’t pay attention to the signs. We better be paying attention now because they’re never going to let us go unless we do something about it. That’s why we’re filing lawsuits.

Lots of them and filing a lot more of them because if we don’t, we have one branch of government in the United States, that’s functioning and that’s the courts.

And if we don’t use the courts to free ourselves, we will never be a free people again.

Interviewer ➝ 34:01

And so what kind of cases are you filing?

Our cases are different. I think a lot of what people are frustrated about right now is how many cases have been filed and things… That most of them have failed. And the reason is the cases that have been filed have been cases that alleged the constitutional rights were being violated. And they are, the problem is that the government would then show up and say, but it’s an emergency and it isn’t, but that’s what they would claim. And the judges would say, well, they do have a lot of power under the Emergency Powers Act.

Our case says there is no pandemic. There is no emergency, it’s a false declaration. Officials know it and they’re committing fraud. So you can’t respond to that by saying, it’s an emergency. Now you have to prove it’s an emergency. And I think what’s been very interesting. We filed this first case in Ohio in August is that they refuse to… All of the court hearings and everything else are involved in them trying not to have to come up with the data.

And our attorney actually said at one point in time, you know, you can make this all go away so quickly. Because if you’re right about this and you give us the data and show that you’re right, a couple of things, first of all, we’ll go away obviously. And you’ll be able to really gloat. I mean, think of the press conference.

The emperor could have to say, we actually proved in court that Pam Popper and Tom Rans and all of these people are wrong. Why don’t they do that? Why this effort not to disclose the information, right?

Because they know they’re in trouble. And and so we’re, we filed in Ohio. Today we’re filing in another state, we’re filing a federal lawsuit as well. And we’re going to keep doing the state by state until we set everybody free. And then we’ve got to work really, really hard to make sure this never happens again by being very diligent citizens.

And that’s why I started Making Americans Free Again. We have a lot of work to do once we got ourselves out from under this ridiculousness, you have to build a ground game.

I think the problem with what’s got on in terms of organizing people, you have a lot of tribalism. So you have all these groups out there that are doing their thing, and none of them have enough money or people to make a difference. And often they’re countering each other.

I think another thing is you can’t just go get a lawyer. I mean, a lawyer who understands this is going to say, I’m going to spend two years of my life doing this. So like, how are you going to feed my family? The free lawyer idea is ludicrous, right? Unless you’ve got some independently wealthy person and then you need a ground game to support it.

You know, how we found our attorney and our experts and everything else is you start organizing. And somebody knows somebody who knows somebody, you know, that’s how you find a great mathematician and public health experts. And I look at the documentation for the lawsuits that we’ve filed and we have rock stars.

Who’ve worked on this stuff. I mean, people who are bright they’re professors at Ohio universities and, and and real experts in public health, epidemiologist, mathematicians, that sort of thing. Well, you have to find those in all States and how you find them is not getting on the internet.

You find them for people who know people who know people, you know, so, so we’re helping other States to get organized, to do what we’ve done here. I mean, I do a conference call every week to show people how to get started and to share our, just our, our winning strategy here, because Ohio is not… We have, we still have restrictions, but everything is open.

Pam Popper ➝ 37:30

You know, we, he would love to shut everything down, but he, he hasn’t, he can’t really so so we hope that every week it grows. I mean, I have more and more people on these calls and more and more people starting groups like we have here.

Pam Popper ➝ 37:43

I’m a World War II buff. And for a lot of reasons, I have a personal interest in it. And it’s a fascinating time in history. And the Nazis could never have done what they did without a lot of help from German citizens and the German citizens who helped the Nazis weren’t rabid Nazis, nor were they rabid Jew haters. They’re just people going along to get along.

Okay. And the Nazis very gradually inflicted more and more and more restrictions and rules and that sort of thing. And even Jewish people started going along well, listen, ‘if I gotta wear a star on my arm to go get food, okay, well’ – what was actually happening was a descent into despotism.

I mean, letting terrible criminals run the government and take control of people’s lives. And so I think it’s really important for people to understand what’s at stake when you put that mask on, you’re helping them. All right. It’s a sign of submission. That’s what they want you to do. Submit.

When you cooperate this, when you close your business, when you refute, when you say to your grandmother, I’m going to put you in a circle in the yard, and you’re going to eat in the cold with a heat lamp. Okay. You’re participating in this kind of nonsense.

Think about what you’re doing. I mean, it, you know, again, it’s just nonsense in it all helps this perpetuate. So, I’m encouraging people to understand what’s going on and what’s at stake. I mean, if you like the way you’re living right now, keep cooperating. Okay.

December 30, 2020

“Our case says there is no pandemic. There is no emergency, it’s a false declaration.”

Dr Pam Popper

Founder, Wellness Forum Health

If you don’t, you need to step outside of cooperating and grow a spine and start helping the opposition and the resistance. Because had that been done earlier in Germany, the Nazis never would have gotten away with what they did. They were helped by passive citizens who let it happen. And that’s what’s happening now. Well, it’s all volunteer. There are no laws. I’ve never put on a mask since started.

We’ve never worn masks in this office since this started. There are people who do never closed their businesses. There are restaurants in this area that have never closed. They don’t have any plastic partitions, and they’ve just gone on about their day. Okay.

Refuse to participate. If everybody did that tomorrow, it would be over because what would they do think about this? I don’t know how many businesses there are in Ohio, but probably more than a million.

If a million people said we’re open, what are you going to do with a million people plus their employees? Seriously? What would you do? Nothing. You do nothing. You’d say, well, apparently we’re done. We, I mean, it’s meaningless.

So they’re only getting away with it because people are allowing them to get away with it. And if people would force the issues. So there’s a guy in California who runs a restaurant a big one and he never closed.

He’s never been closed for a single day. And there are no plastic partitions. And the bar is open and the place is packed and the whole nine yards. So they’ve been in there and they’ve, they’ve fined him. And they inspect and they issue fines and the whole nine yards. And he basically says, you know what? Let’s go to court.

Let’s go, let’s have a jury trial. So why haven’t they done that? This guy is flagrantly breaking the law, supposedly, alright, violating the rules. You could make such an example out of him. So why don’t they want to do that? Because what do you is going to happen when they get into a court?

There’s no law that allows them to do this and a jury. And you know, a good jury is gonna say, you had no right to put this guy out of business for months at a time.

You know? So, so they don’t want to go to court. They don’t want that. All right.

So again, if everybody just stopped complying, then it would be over. That’s why, when we were testing a little emperor, driving all over the state for the curfew and he wouldn’t arrest anybody, he got,… he strengthened the mask mandate.

December 30, 2020

“step outside of cooperating and grow a spine and start helping the opposition and the resistance. Because had that been done earlier in Germany, the Nazis never would have gotten away with what they did… Refuse to participate. If everybody did that tomorrow, it would be over”

Dr Pam Popper

Founder, Wellness Forum Health

Supposedly you were supposed to shut down businesses that didn’t have masks. The second time, there was a complaint.

We sent teams of people in the big box stores, no masks, no walk right past the person, and then call themselves in while there’s people screaming and hollering the whole nine yards, couldn’t shut down a big box store to save our lives.

All right. So they don’t want to go to court. They don’t want, they, they cannot really deal with any kind of legal ramifications because they can’t defend what they’re doing. So they’re counting on compliance. The Nazis counted on compliance to, and they got it. So just think about that.

Interviewer ➝ 42:13

So what, what kind of stuff does it take to, to say no? And when the majority of people are going along with it,

Pam Popper

I think what you have to do is look at your character. You know, I don’t understand this idea that it is so important for me to fit in that I’ll destroy my family. I’ll destroy my community. I’ll destroy the next generation. Think about what you’re doing. Look around, 25% of adolescents and young adults, what to kill themselves.

You’re helping with that. I live across the street from an elementary school, and I see these kids crying about the masks and the whole nine yards get on that, get on YouTube for once in your life and do some research and watch the people being labeled as terrorists because their two year old wouldn’t put a mask on, on a United airlines flight.

You’re helping with that. All right. More people have filed for unemployment than ever before. Businesses are closing. 80% of the restaurants in Ohio won’t survive, unless something changes, feel good about yourself, about that, right?

I’m helping to close businesses. I’m helping to bankrupt people. We’re supposed to have another half a million or so homeless people in Ohio shortly, feel proud of yourself that you’re facilitating that, feel great that that’s going on.

And I guess I’m doing the same kind of shaming that these people, that you’re going to shame me because I’m not wearing a mask and you have no feeling of personal responsibility that you’re helping to contribute to this really, really.

Okay. Now I think that so the first thing is, I think there’s some people who really need to understand their role in this. And I’m tired of them, shaming us for staying in business, for protecting our families, for protecting our incomes for protecting our dignity.

But what I would say to the middle group of people who were saying, I know that this is wrong, but I’m afraid.

Okay. I think sometimes you have to look at what is the alternative. If I don’t stand up, where are we going to end up? We’re going to live in a communist country. And then what are you going to think?

I wish I’d done it, right. I think a lot of people in Germany while they watched what was going on while they watched their friends and neighbors being hauled off to camps and that sort of thing, someplace in the back of their mind, they must’ve been thinking, I wish I’d spoken up earlier. I wish I’d done something before it got to this point.

You know? So this is your moment to, to really be a Patriot, to stand up for your country, to stand up for your friends, your family, your community, your state, your country , and we need you to do it. We need everybody to do it.

We’re not going to be able to get the sheep to do it because they’re too mentally damaged at this point in time. But those of you who understand what’s going on, we need for you to get involved.

Interviewer ➝ 45:07

And what kind of effects all these measures do. If we don’t stop it?

Pam Popper

If we don’t stop this, the goal is to make us all words of the state. I mean, that idiot [Shwab] that runs the World Economic Forum actually says, this is, you can read this online. You won’t own nothing and you will be happy about it. So think about that. You’re going to be happy with that. I’m not okay. I’ll, I’ll fix this or die trying. That’s my stance on it.

Pam Popper ➝ 45:32 [Scene Shift]

That’s documentary that I was in years ago. Became one of the best selling documentaries of all time. And I wrote, I was coauthor of the companion book that was on the New York times list for about 66 weeks.

Interviewer ➝ 45:48

And is there a piece of advice from it that?

Pam Popper

Yeah eat plants [laughter]. Then back here is shipping and receiving and assembly and walk-ins and cause we make food here too. We have an athletic gym back here and we do private training. So this is our gym, over there is our aerobic equipment. Then here is stuff that got shipped today that we haven’t put away yet. And so everything in one building.

Interviewer ➝ 46:27

So you’re shipping out food, food items?

Pam Popper

Yeah, food and personal care items and books and mixes and… Yeah, [inaudible]… Flax seeds. And [inaudible] we have our own green tea farms in China and we make our own smoothie mixes and food bars and all that kind of thing.


Sorry it’s the counter to the American diet.

Pam Popper

Well, it’s the counter to the American diet. Their offices and conference rooms down that way. And then we have, we have two kitchens. A teaching kitchen that right now is being used to make a lot of cookies, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dozens of cookies. Then we have a commercial production kitchen here. Yeah. So this is our place. The people in the community who are vulnerable are people who are overweight, diabetic on multiple medications on their way to the nursing home. I might add sooner or later, that’s going to be where you end up. If you don’t change your ways. And all of that is fixable.

You know, every year in the United States, hundreds of thousands of people die of heart disease. Most of that could be completely eliminated. If people ate differently, exercised, kept themselves hydrated, took care of themselves and it’s not as hard as people think it is.

In fact, one of the things that people say when they come here is, you know, I was pretty motivated to do whatever I had to do. Cause a lot of people ended up here when they’re scared, worried about their health, but they’ll often say later, frankly, I was going to do whatever it took, but it was a lot easier than I thought it was going to be.

I mean, it was, you know, it, it, it is, we can make it easy. It’s not, in fact it’s easier to take care of yourself. If I spend less time taking care of myself at the age of 64 than most people spend going to doctors and having procedures and getting their prescriptions filled.

And I don’t have the fear associated with that. And we were talking about fear back in the office. You know, people should be afraid of their state of health, not the virus because the virus doesn’t affect healthy people. All right. It just, doesn’t generally speaking.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but the people, the people who have died are not, are not people who were in great health. In fact, think about every flu season that you’ve experienced in the past. Here’s what happens.

Older, vulnerable people die. People who are really sick and compromised in the general population die, kids almost nothing.

Right? They get sick. Sometimes, sometimes they don’t. And then, you know, here at the office every year somebody gets the flu and they’re out for a couple of days, we’re all exposed to it. We don’t even get sick. You know, I think I get the flu like every six or seven years.

And it’s over with on a day, you know, well, I would add not listening to the government, just turning off the television. And a lot of people are saying that by the way that their mental health improved when they just stopped listening to the nonsense.

And I’ll tell you an interesting comment. One of my coworkers here made the comment when the lockdown first happened. She said, all these people are home and they, and there’s no work for a lot of them. I mean, we were essentially, we, we do food, have a healthcare company and a school.

So we were open and we were essential. But of course we all knew people who are just home. She said, I’m wondering if the reason for sending him home, isn’t, they’ll turn on the television, watch with bated breath what’s going and then that’s how they get brainwashed.

And, and boy did that turn out to be a pretty accurate prediction. Okay. We have some smart people working here at wellness forum, right. And people are fighting back. I mean, it wasn’t long before… I would tell you this, that, that there was a lot of, I don’t, I, you can’t even call it illegal activity.

Yeah. Because there are no laws that dictate any of this stuff that’s going on. But, people started to fight back early and by Thanksgiving I think, and I’m kind of smiled when this happened. So, you know, Fauci gets on TV every day and goes, “oh, we should cancel Thanksgiving and stay home. And my wife and I are going to Zoom with our kids” and I’m thinking, Oh my God, well, look at what happened at Thanksgiving.

It was the biggest travel weekend in like 20 years. So it just tells you people aren’t even listening to this nitwit anymore. Right.

And he is a nitwit, he’s a criminal nitwit actually but they’re not listening to him anymore. And he’s crowing every day. I don’t watch him. But these little news feeds come across about, Oh, cancel Christmas, United canceled Christmas. So I asked a question, at Make Americans Free Again meeting last night – we had a bunch of people here – how many people are planning to follow the rules for Christmas?

Nobody. All right. And, and even at Thanksgiving, you know, people, I can tell you on my street that people were not following the rules just on my street. You could tell. Right. So, yeah.

So the integrity, meaning I guess, like to be yourself, take some courage, right? Yeah, yeah. To do, to be brave, be courageous, to do the right thing. Oftentimes it’s hard. It’s the harder stuff, but it’s the more fulfilling one.

Pam Popper ➝ 51:48

Yeah. I would, I would say that that’s true. I mean, to do what I’ve done, people say, well, you’re so brave. I don’t know. I, it, it’s never felt that way. To me it’s felt like it’s just the right thing to do. And I think sometimes you have to do the right thing, whether somebody is watching or not.

And regardless of the consequences, in other words, it’s not a.. It’s not a subjective choice in my opinion, you stand up for what’s right. And unfortunately throughout history, we’ve had a lot of people who did it. And, and so you get your inspiration from them.

I think what you have to sometimes maybe the way to look at those is when I leave the planet and somebody is writing my obituary, what do I want them to write? You know, do I want them to say, well, you know, that Pam, she was always so easy to get along with just went along with whatever, never raised a fuss about anything.

Didn’t make anybody mad. Well, maybe there’s some merit in that to some people. But I think what I want people to write about me as I stood for something that I that I did make the tougher choices. So I was willing to take a stand when it was unpopular, because it was the right thing to do.

And, you know, the, the, the sheep. And I want to say this about the sheep. If the sheep really believed in what they were doing, if they really had thought this through, they would understand the disastrous consequences of this, of the lockdowns and everything else.

And so what they would be doing is coming forward to say, you know what? I am for the lockdowns. And I believe so strongly in this, that I’m going to give away my money to help the people. That’s what I’m doing.

Pam Popper doing, where, where are the sheep stepping up and saying, I’m going to help everybody. All they do is scream and holler. Cause you don’t have a mask on. That’s a pretty easy thing to do. So start giving your income to the people who are starving to death. Start doing something about the half a million soon to be homeless people in Ohio, that takes character.

And I think that’s what this is going to be is a grand sorting out of who has character in this country versus who just is willing to sit back and take whatever is delivered and let, whatever destruction goes on around them happen. And then claim, “it wasn’t my fault”. Well, it is your fault. It’s all of our faults, you know, and it’s all of our responsibility to help in this situation.

So that’s what I have to say about it.

Pam Popper ➝ 54:23 [Scene Shift]

We have an awful lot of people who just, aren’t thinking, they’re not thinking, they’re not critical thinkers. You know, this, like I said, if you sat down, you can’t have a conversation with them for one thing, most of them, all right.

And, and I don’t know anybody who’s convinced a sheep to change their mind and the data overwhelmingly supports what we’re talking about. Right. So and if they just articulating what they’re doing should tell them something is wrong.

Like, I, this one guy who came in here to do something, I said, how was your Thanksgiving? He said, “well, it was a little difficult. Cause we, it was very cold and we had to eat in the yard.” Okay. No, you don’t have to eat in the yard, there was nobody there making you do it. I mean, if I was sitting in somebody’s backyard, eating dinner with my coat on, I wouldn’t do it.

You know? I mean, you just think about the kind of person who says, “okay. You know, all right, I’ll close my business. Sure. I’ll go bankrupt. Okay. Yeah. Everybody will go bankrupt. Got to do it.” I mean, you know, just putting a mask on a two year old, right. That’s okay.

The people who have watched horrific things happen and not intervened like this one scene with this two year old, not putting the mask on and watching how the airlines handled it. And everybody just sat there and looked at it and let it happen.

It really is just like the Germans when they started hauling Jews off. Well, you know, I guess that’s just, what’s going on. I know they used to be our neighbors at all.

I call it the same louder crowd. You can hear the song on the internet, they haven’t taken it off yet.

As sooner or later, everything will be gone. There’ll be burning books and well, they are sort of, that’s why my book isn’t on Kindle now, but anyway there’s a very famous like little vignette on the internet and it’s a woman who’s talking about when she and her husband used to go to church on Sunday and the train track where they were taking the Jews on the trains to the camps, ran to the back of the church and they could hear the Jews screaming in the trains.

December 30, 2020

“The people who have watched horrific things happen and not intervened like this one scene with this two year old, not putting the mask on and watching how the airlines handled it. And everybody just sat there and looked at it and let it happen.
It really is just like the Germans when they started hauling Jews off.”

Dr Pam Popper

Founder, Wellness Forum Health

And so what they did was sang louder. We have a lot of people singing louder in this country.

And you wonder what was, what is, must that woman think about singing louder while people were being hauled off to be slaughtered. And so if anybody’s watching this and thinking, well, nobody’s being hauled off to be slaughtered, what do you think is happening in nursing homes?

Remember what I said about the woman who chose assisted suicide, rather being than being locked in her room in a nursing home, that’s being slaughtered really not quite the same as being in a gas oven or in an oven and having chemicals sprayed in, but it’s not a whole lot different.

So we have a lot of people out there singing louder. And I’ve said many times I’ve worked really hard to get to the place where I don’t feel… I’m angry with these people. I don’t feel vindictive toward these people. I have no intention of having dinner with these people when this is all over with.

I mean, I think that for some of us who know what’s going on, there’s been a big shifting of friendships and acquaintanceships and organizations.

And that sort of thing is we’ve just basically said, I don’t want anything to do with some of this now, you know I don’t want anything to do with people who can be persuaded to be so cruel and to facilitate such criminal behavior.


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